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From: Eduardo Valle <dudavalle@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:58:42 +0000
You know i know t?o, headquarters , decision makers are not in the South hemisphere, i know because i have a very close experience t?o.
Off course there is dialogue , their goals is profit. And now the employers are the "owners" of the enterprises, it is funny to see them saying " in my enterprise ..."
The BRICS have to find their mission but Still they are dependent because most of the System is dependent of the G7, Still
ARt is Still very important and the problem is that collectors from "developed nations" know and recognize that while in others parts of the World that is Still unrecognized, just to ilustrate or TO PROVE that, there is only 2 South americans collectors on a list of top 150 collectors on the very OLD contemporary Art ...
Industrial Economy is related to Economy and not culture and the wealthy persons from the developed countries knows that culture Is more important and h?s more value that the Economy ...
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:18:05 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
As you know, the primary economic development of the past 200 years has
been INDUSTRIALIZATION, which has moved across the globe --
country-by-country.
The "developed" world *finished* this process and, as a result, reached a
plateau and become post-industrial (i.e. shifting to "finance" and other
services) in the late 20th century, which left it to many other countries to
GROW much faster as they now being industrialized.
The headquarters and CEOs involved in this wider global growth process are
*NOT* in London or New York but instead in Mumbai, Sao Paolo, Moscow
and Beijing. I know, I've been there!
There is PLENTY of spectrum for everyone to *talk* and that's what they
have been doing -- with much of it *refusing* to work under the direction of
the fading "Imperium."
China will *not* allow themselves to be told what to do by anyone and I
suspect that Brazil is doing something similar. The "power" of the old
industrial centers gets WEAKER (not stronger) every day!
Art (in terms of fairs, rich collectors etc) is a by-product of this
process and maps into it with a significant "lag" -- given that this is "luxury"
and not a "productive" activity. So, it's "backwards" not "forward"
looking.
If you want to chart actual shifts in "power" you would be much better
dealing with rates of change of energy and materials consumption (i.e. the
industrial economy) and not "art."
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 4:49:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In Liverpool i was presenting a Geopolitical analysis of
Contemporary Art and Electronic Art inside of what i called the Web of
Art and their 14 instances. I was analysing only 3 instances: the artists, the
fairs and the collectors and they were still on the same geopolitical pattern.
China was rising and so the BRICS because of lack of infra structure,
need of expansion of capitalism and cheap labor force , but we all know where
the headquarters and CEOs are located...
You were saying that communication is changing everything and if the
spectrum is few, how can they even talk ...
So here you have some facts that reality is not really changing in
terms of geopolitical power i will send some conceptual maps from my
presentation in Liverpool.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:46:48 -0500
Subject:
Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To:
dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
Sorry -- how do you explain the rise of CHINA in "geopolitical" terms
(i.e. a development which was completely missed by the geopoliticists)?
Why would changes in communications make "problems" go away?
And, "communication" isn't about spectrum (which is a machine-to-machine
parameter) but instead about how *people* actually TALK to each other!
I wasn't there, so what did you PROVE in Liverpool . . . ??
<g>
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 1:08:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In geopolitical terms, NO. And this was proved in my
presentation in Liverpool in relation to Art.
Communication is faster and is cover a broader spectrum but still
reproducing the same problems.
And this broader spectrum is still low, for example if you look at
Brasil in terms of digital acess ... or Africa.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:09 -0500
Subject:
OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To:
dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
> It is not because communication is changing that reality is
changing
Really -- how do you know that . . . ??
Mark==
From: Eduardo Valle <dudavalle@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:35:55 +0000
Decisions are negociated, at least that, but the BRICS governments are just looking for bu$$$ine$$$ to mantain an economical ?grow* no matter about enviroment , labour conditions, mafia (Russia and oil owners) ... We are living under FINAZISM so no matter from where the money came from as long as they mantain a certain economical grow, so people can buy a new car and a new computer. You have no ideia how Brazilian states deal when transnationals wants to invest here, fiscal benefits that you will not believe and they will never find that in the developed nations in the name of cheap labour force, profit and a market.
Culture and Art are totally related and collectors play a major role , specially in countries where the State and their Museums dont even know what is to collect Art and therefore preserves Culture.
Culture, communication and the world are mutants but you can see milenar cultures that are not affected by that, on contrary they reafirm certain things during a long time and facing communication changes.
YES, I proved and i can apply that in many other fields and instances of Art and you will find the same patterns. Take a look on wich market brazil is leading globally and you will take a picture of what is going on and for shure in ART the leaders are for no coincidence USA and Europe ... Take a look at the leading journals in Science, Art and Technologies and their boards ... Take a look on the top scientists of the world ...Take a look at Elsevier control ...
Jokes are welcome since we are all clowns ... or maybe not
Copy for the list since the discussion begins there.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:55:30 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
CHINA: 0% chance that *important* political or economic decisions will be
made outside.
RUSSIA: 10% chance that *important* political or economic decisions
will be made outside.
INDIA: 20% chance that *important* political or economic decisions
will be made outside.
BRASIL: ??% chance that *important* political or economic decisions will be
made outside.
If that chance for Brazil is more than 20-30%, then there is no one to
blame other than the Brazilians -- which I doubt *very* much.
Culture is *free* for everyone -- in fact it is an ENVIRONMENT that is
largely shaped by *communications* technologies. When those technologies
change, so does the culture!
ART collecting of "major pieces" is NOT the same as "culture" and is NOT
for everyone -- instead it is an "investment" for some in the *elites* which has
little to do with either economics or politics.
Sorry -- you have NOT proved anything about the global "structure" of power
by analyzing the location of *high-end* art collectors!
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 9:58:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
You know i know t?o, headquarters , decision makers are not in
the South hemisphere, i know because i have a very close experience
t?o.
Off course there is dialogue , their goals is profit.
And now the employers are the "owners" of the
enterprises, it is funny to see them saying " in my enterprise ..."
The BRICS have to find their mission but Still they are dependent
because most of the System is dependent of the G7, Still
ARt is Still
very important and the problem is that collectors from "developed nations"
know and recognize that while in others parts of the World that is Still
unrecognized, just to ilustrate or TO PROVE that, there is only 2 South
americans collectors on a list of top 150 collectors on the very OLD
contemporary Art ...
Industrial Economy is related to Economy and not
culture and the wealthy persons from the developed countries knows that
culture Is more important and h?s more value that the Economy
...
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:18:05 -0500
Subject:
Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To:
dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
As you know, the primary economic development of the past 200 years has
been INDUSTRIALIZATION, which has moved across the globe --
country-by-country.
The "developed" world *finished* this process and, as a result, reached a
plateau and become post-industrial (i.e. shifting to "finance" and other
services) in the late 20th century, which left it to many other countries to
GROW much faster as they now being industrialized.
The headquarters and CEOs involved in this wider global growth process
are *NOT* in London or New York but instead in Mumbai, Sao Paolo, Moscow
and Beijing. I know, I've been there!
There is PLENTY of spectrum for everyone to *talk* and that's what they
have been doing -- with much of it *refusing* to work under the direction of
the fading "Imperium."
China will *not* allow themselves to be told what to do by anyone and I
suspect that Brazil is doing something similar. The "power" of the old
industrial centers gets WEAKER (not stronger) every day!
Art (in terms of fairs, rich collectors etc) is a by-product of this
process and maps into it with a significant "lag" -- given that this is
"luxury" and not a "productive" activity. So, it's "backwards" not
"forward" looking.
If you want to chart actual shifts in "power" you would be much better
dealing with rates of change of energy and materials consumption (i.e. the
industrial economy) and not "art."
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 4:49:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In Liverpool i was presenting a Geopolitical analysis of
Contemporary Art and Electronic Art inside of what i called the Web of
Art and their 14 instances. I was analysing only 3 instances: the artists,
the fairs and the collectors and they were still on the same geopolitical
pattern.
China was rising and so the BRICS because of lack of infra structure,
need of expansion of capitalism and cheap labor force , but we all know
where the headquarters and CEOs are located...
You were saying that communication is changing everything and if the
spectrum is few, how can they even talk ...
So here you have some facts that reality is not really changing
in terms of geopolitical power i will send some conceptual maps from my
presentation in Liverpool.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:46:48 -0500
Subject:
Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To:
dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
Sorry -- how do you explain the rise of CHINA in "geopolitical" terms
(i.e. a development which was completely missed by the
geopoliticists)?
Why would changes in communications make "problems" go away?
And, "communication" isn't about spectrum (which is a
machine-to-machine parameter) but instead about how *people* actually TALK
to each other!
I wasn't there, so what did you PROVE in Liverpool . . . ??
<g>
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 1:08:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In geopolitical terms, NO. And this was proved in my
presentation in Liverpool in relation to Art.
Communication is faster and is cover a broader spectrum but still
reproducing the same problems.
And this broader spectrum is still low, for example if you look at
Brasil in terms of digital acess ... or Africa.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:09
-0500
Subject: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and
Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
> It is not because communication is changing that reality is
changing
Really -- how do you know that . . . ??
Mark===
>From dudavalle@hotmail.com Wed Feb 20 23:51:08 2013
From: Eduardo Valle <dudavalle@hotmail.com>
To: "newmedia@aol.com" <newmedia@aol.com>, "nettime@kein.org"
<nettime@kein.org>
Subject: RE: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:50:58 +0000
Importance: Normal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Status: RO
X-Status: F
Content-Length: 9391
Lines: 275
I use digital technologies and is nothing new, you like the ones thats says new media ...Creativity and interesting things are not only related to digital ..
The discussion started in nettime so ...
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:52:00 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
If it says OFFLIST then it's NOT for nettime -- okay?
Yes, it's a MARKET (or whatever you want to call it) economy worldwide --
not exactly a big discovery . . . !! <g>
The fact that some places are more "developed" than others and that RICH
people like to collect art -- also not a surprise.
If you care to think through the NEW effects of *digital* technologies,
then you might come up with something new and interesting . . . or maybe
not.
Mark
In a message dated 2/20/2013 11:35:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
Decisions are negociated, at least that, but the BRICS
governments are just looking for bu$$$ine$$$ to mantain an economical ?grow*
no matter about enviroment , labour conditions, mafia (Russia and oil owners)
... We are living under FINAZISM so no matter from where the money came
from as long as they mantain a certain economical grow, so people can buy a
new car and a new computer. You have no ideia how Brazilian states deal when
transnationals wants to invest here, fiscal benefits that you will not believe
and they will never find that in the developed nations in the name of cheap
labour force, profit and a market.
Culture and Art are totally related and collectors play a major role ,
specially in countries where the State and their Museums dont even know what
is to collect Art and therefore preserves Culture.
Culture, communication and the world are mutants but you can see milenar
cultures that are not affected by that, on contrary they reafirm certain
things during a long time and facing communication changes.
YES, I proved and i can apply that in many other fields and instances of
Art and you will find the same patterns. Take a look on wich market brazil is
leading globally and you will take a picture of what is going on and for shure
in ART the leaders are for no coincidence USA and Europe ... Take a look at
the leading journals in Science, Art and Technologies and their boards ...
Take a look on the top scientists of the world ...
Take a look at Elsevier control ...
Jokes are welcome since we are all clowns ... or maybe not
Copy for the list since the discussion begins there.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:55:30 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
CHINA: 0% chance that *important* political or economic decisions will be
made outside.
RUSSIA: 10% chance that *important* political or economic decisions
will be made outside.
INDIA: 20% chance that *important* political or economic decisions
will be made outside.
BRASIL: ??% chance that *important* political or economic decisions will
be made outside.
If that chance for Brazil is more than 20-30%, then there is no one to
blame other than the Brazilians -- which I doubt *very* much.
Culture is *free* for everyone -- in fact it is an ENVIRONMENT that is
largely shaped by *communications* technologies. When those technologies
change, so does the culture!
ART collecting of "major pieces" is NOT the same as "culture" and is NOT
for everyone -- instead it is an "investment" for some in the *elites* which
has little to do with either economics or politics.
Sorry -- you have NOT proved anything about the global "structure" of
power by analyzing the location of *high-end* art collectors!
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 9:58:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
You know i know t?o, headquarters , decision makers are not in
the South hemisphere, i know because i have a very close experience
t?o.
Off course there is dialogue , their goals is profit.
And now the employers are the "owners" of the
enterprises, it is funny to see them saying " in my enterprise ..."
The BRICS have to find their mission but Still they are dependent
because most of the System is dependent of the G7, Still
ARt is
Still very important and the problem is that collectors from "developed
nations" know and recognize that while in others parts of the World that is
Still unrecognized, just to ilustrate or TO PROVE that, there is only 2
South americans collectors on a list of top 150 collectors on the very OLD
contemporary Art ...
Industrial Economy is related to Economy and not
culture and the wealthy persons from the developed countries knows that
culture Is more important and h?s more value that the Economy
...
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:18:05 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
As you know, the primary economic development of the past 200 years has
been INDUSTRIALIZATION, which has moved across the globe --
country-by-country.
The "developed" world *finished* this process and, as a result, reached
a plateau and become post-industrial (i.e. shifting to "finance" and other
services) in the late 20th century, which left it to many other countries to
GROW much faster as they now being industrialized.
The headquarters and CEOs involved in this wider global growth process
are *NOT* in London or New York but instead in Mumbai, Sao Paolo, Moscow
and Beijing. I know, I've been there!
There is PLENTY of spectrum for everyone to *talk* and that's what they
have been doing -- with much of it *refusing* to work under the direction of
the fading "Imperium."
China will *not* allow themselves to be told what to do by anyone and I
suspect that Brazil is doing something similar. The "power" of the old
industrial centers gets WEAKER (not stronger) every day!
Art (in terms of fairs, rich collectors etc) is a by-product of this
process and maps into it with a significant "lag" -- given that this is
"luxury" and not a "productive" activity. So, it's "backwards" not
"forward" looking.
If you want to chart actual shifts in "power" you would be much better
dealing with rates of change of energy and materials consumption (i.e. the
industrial economy) and not "art."
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 4:49:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In Liverpool i was presenting a Geopolitical analysis of
Contemporary Art and Electronic Art inside of what i called the Web
of Art and their 14 instances. I was analysing only 3 instances: the
artists, the fairs and the collectors and they were still on the same
geopolitical pattern.
China was rising and so the BRICS because of lack of infra structure,
need of expansion of capitalism and cheap labor force , but we all know
where the headquarters and CEOs are located...
You were saying that communication is changing everything and if the
spectrum is few, how can they even talk ...
So here you have some facts that reality is not really changing
in terms of geopolitical power i will send some conceptual maps from my
presentation in Liverpool.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:46:48 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
Sorry -- how do you explain the rise of CHINA in "geopolitical" terms
(i.e. a development which was completely missed by the
geopoliticists)?
Why would changes in communications make "problems" go away?
And, "communication" isn't about spectrum (which is a
machine-to-machine parameter) but instead about how *people* actually TALK
to each other!
I wasn't there, so what did you PROVE in Liverpool . . . ??
<g>
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 1:08:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In geopolitical terms, NO. And this was proved in my
presentation in Liverpool in relation to Art.
Communication is faster and is cover a broader spectrum but still
reproducing the same problems.
And this broader spectrum is still low, for example if you look at
Brasil in terms of digital acess ... or Africa.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:09 -0500
Subject: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
> It is not because communication is changing that reality is
changing
Really -- how do you know that . . . ??
Mark====
From: Eduardo Valle <dudavalle@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:52:46 +0000
There is no OLD or new media aproach there is life and the digital condition.
I work on a daily basis and as Far as i know raise Your foice or show Your opinion in 2 discussion lists and in one social media is Far from being a TV star or a Spam... If there is something that i use less and less is TV ...
Sometimes You have to fight to sustain Your point the view If You are not part of any group, so ...
and YES i proved that in geopolitical terms NEW or OLD media are under Control of the same geopolitical Power, but it is something that the majority dont want to discuss , they just want to discuss How wonderfull digital technologies are ...
The discussion started in nettime so for me is important that they have acess too ... Talking about acess do You want to discuss Internet acess in the World , Maybe You can analyse that t?o and see How they are Still concentrate in some parts of the World...
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:09:28 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
Duda:
Your urge to "perform in public" -- risking my cutting off what is
supposed to be a *private* conversation -- is indeed an OLD MEDIA approach using
"new media" technologies.
You have adopted the role of a BROADCASTER with your posts to Facebook,
nettime etc, so, yes, in terms of your own "creativity" you are *not*
operating in a "digital" modality -- instead you behave as if you were the
"star" in your own television show!
But the *environment* has changed. It is now DIGITAL.
Television is no longer in "charge" of our lives. Under the circumstances,
acting like a TV star is understandable but also a "throw-back."
You want people to pay attention to you, so you have to "engage"
them, but you don't really want to have a conversation -- which is why you
insist on posting all this to nettime.
Like the rest of us, you are "caught" in the interval between two
worlds, in an age of radical transition . . .
Mark
In a message dated 2/20/2013 5:51:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
I use digital technologies and is nothing new, you like the ones
thats says new media ...
Creativity and interesting things are not only related to digital
..
The discussion started in nettime so ...
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:52:00 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
If it says OFFLIST then it's NOT for nettime -- okay?
Yes, it's a MARKET (or whatever you want to call it) economy worldwide --
not exactly a big discovery . . . !! <g>
The fact that some places are more "developed" than others and that RICH
people like to collect art -- also not a surprise.
If you care to think through the NEW effects of *digital* technologies,
then you might come up with something new and interesting . . . or maybe
not.
Mark
In a message dated 2/20/2013 11:35:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
Decisions are negociated, at least that, but the BRICS
governments are just looking for bu$$$ine$$$ to mantain an economical ?grow*
no matter about enviroment , labour conditions, mafia (Russia and oil
owners) ... We are living under FINAZISM so no matter from where the
money came from as long as they mantain a certain economical grow, so people
can buy a new car and a new computer. You have no ideia how Brazilian states
deal when transnationals wants to invest here, fiscal benefits that you will
not believe and they will never find that in the developed nations in the
name of cheap labour force, profit and a market.
Culture and Art are totally related and collectors play a major role ,
specially in countries where the State and their Museums dont even know what
is to collect Art and therefore preserves Culture.
Culture, communication and the world are mutants but you can see
milenar cultures that are not affected by that, on contrary they reafirm
certain things during a long time and facing communication
changes.
YES, I proved and i can apply that in many other fields and instances
of Art and you will find the same patterns. Take a look on wich market
brazil is leading globally and you will take a picture of what is going on
and for shure in ART the leaders are for no coincidence USA and Europe ...
Take a look at the leading journals in Science, Art and Technologies and
their boards ... Take a look on the top scientists of the world ...
Take a look at Elsevier control ...
Jokes are welcome since we are all clowns ... or maybe not
Copy for the list since the discussion begins there.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:55:30 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
CHINA: 0% chance that *important* political or economic decisions will
be made outside.
RUSSIA: 10% chance that *important* political or economic
decisions will be made outside.
INDIA: 20% chance that *important* political or economic decisions
will be made outside.
BRASIL: ??% chance that *important* political or economic decisions
will be made outside.
If that chance for Brazil is more than 20-30%, then there is no one to
blame other than the Brazilians -- which I doubt *very* much.
Culture is *free* for everyone -- in fact it is an ENVIRONMENT that is
largely shaped by *communications* technologies. When those
technologies change, so does the culture!
ART collecting of "major pieces" is NOT the same as "culture" and is
NOT for everyone -- instead it is an "investment" for some in the *elites*
which has little to do with either economics or politics.
Sorry -- you have NOT proved anything about the global "structure" of
power by analyzing the location of *high-end* art collectors!
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 9:58:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
You know i know t?o, headquarters , decision makers are not
in the South hemisphere, i know because i have a very close experience
t?o.
Off course there is dialogue , their goals is
profit. And now the employers are the "owners" of
the enterprises, it is funny to see them saying " in my enterprise ..."
The BRICS have to find their mission but Still they are dependent
because most of the System is dependent of the G7, Still
ARt is
Still very important and the problem is that collectors from "developed
nations" know and recognize that while in others parts of the World that
is Still unrecognized, just to ilustrate or TO PROVE that, there is only 2
South americans collectors on a list of top 150 collectors on the very OLD
contemporary Art ...
Industrial Economy is related to Economy and not
culture and the wealthy persons from the developed countries knows that
culture Is more important and h?s more value that the Economy
...
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:18:05 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
As you know, the primary economic development of the past 200 years
has been INDUSTRIALIZATION, which has moved across the globe --
country-by-country.
The "developed" world *finished* this process and, as a result,
reached a plateau and become post-industrial (i.e. shifting to "finance"
and other services) in the late 20th century, which left it to many other
countries to GROW much faster as they now being industrialized.
The headquarters and CEOs involved in this wider global growth
process are *NOT* in London or New York but instead in Mumbai, Sao Paolo,
Moscow and Beijing. I know, I've been there!
There is PLENTY of spectrum for everyone to *talk* and that's what
they have been doing -- with much of it *refusing* to work under the
direction of the fading "Imperium."
China will *not* allow themselves to be told what to do by anyone and
I suspect that Brazil is doing something similar. The "power" of the
old industrial centers gets WEAKER (not stronger) every day!
Art (in terms of fairs, rich collectors etc) is a by-product of this
process and maps into it with a significant "lag" -- given that this is
"luxury" and not a "productive" activity. So, it's "backwards" not
"forward" looking.
If you want to chart actual shifts in "power" you would be much
better dealing with rates of change of energy and materials consumption
(i.e. the industrial economy) and not "art."
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 4:49:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In Liverpool i was presenting a Geopolitical analysis of
Contemporary Art and Electronic Art inside of what i called the
Web of Art and their 14 instances. I was analysing only 3 instances: the
artists, the fairs and the collectors and they were still on the same
geopolitical pattern.
China was rising and so the BRICS because of lack of infra
structure, need of expansion of capitalism and cheap labor force , but
we all know where the headquarters and CEOs are located...
You were saying that communication is changing everything and if
the spectrum is few, how can they even talk ...
So here you have some facts that reality is not really
changing in terms of geopolitical power i will send some conceptual maps
from my presentation in Liverpool.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:46:48 -0500
Subject: Re: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
Sorry -- how do you explain the rise of CHINA in "geopolitical"
terms (i.e. a development which was completely missed by the
geopoliticists)?
Why would changes in communications make "problems" go away?
And, "communication" isn't about spectrum (which is a
machine-to-machine parameter) but instead about how *people* actually
TALK to each other!
I wasn't there, so what did you PROVE in Liverpool . . . ??
<g>
Mark
In a message dated 2/19/2013 1:08:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dudavalle@hotmail.com writes:
In geopolitical terms, NO. And this was proved in my
presentation in Liverpool in relation to Art.
Communication is faster and is cover a broader spectrum but still
reproducing the same problems.
And this broader spectrum is still low, for example if you look
at Brasil in terms of digital acess ... or Africa.
From: Newmedia@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:09 -0500
Subject: OFFLIST Re: <nettime> Geopolitics and Internet
To: dudavalle@hotmail.com
Duda:
> It is not because communication is changing that reality is
changing
Really -- how do you know that . . . ??
Mark=====
From: Eduardo Valle <dudavalle@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: nettime-l Digest, Vol 65, Issue 4
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 00:38:10 +0000
Jernej, history repeating , just for You to let You know only 30 % of the brazilians h?s acess to internet and the majority of that is private ... i wonder How are these number in ?frica and Who are the providers ... Please tell me How many countries in this World h?s his own sat?lite ... But is all new, equal and neutral ...
> From: nettime-l-request@mail.kein.org
> Subject: nettime-l Digest, Vol 65, Issue 4
> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org
> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 01:06:05 +0100
>
> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to
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